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Author Topic: June 8th; the day skynet comes online  (Read 394 times)

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Offline Malice please

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2017, 07:16:17 AM »
Conservative manifesto is so far the only one with plans to give less to useless old people. Party for the young...

Offline Spite

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2017, 07:23:11 AM »
Labour do considerably better than JC in polling. Individual MPs in turn do better than the labour party.

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. The narrative of momentum (JC fan boy group) is that the public is fed up with Tory lite and want a socialist party. However he is the least popular, then the labour party as a whole, and finally the "Tory lite" MPs that he wants to get rid of.
oh hey look I've become a running joke

Offline Malice please

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2017, 07:34:13 AM »
Although last general election labour did better than conservative in my new constituency, I believe conservatives have the slightly better, but still low chance to beat SNP.
Perfect storm of JC labour weakness, frustration with the Scottish Neverendum Party, and the scottish conservative leader being well regarded.
Times are messed up.

Would be nice to have an anti-gerontocracy party to protest vote for.

Offline Cozza

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2017, 07:54:57 AM »
British Labour still linked with the unions?
Quote
I'll take a bottle of lanoline, squirt it in your fucking eye
And make you cry them dry moist tears
That you've been waiting to hold onto for years you fucking soft cunt
I don't give a fuck!
Pots are probably your favorite type of material because you like flowers you fucking pussy
I fucking hate you

Offline Cromstar

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2017, 08:25:49 AM »
The narrative of momentum (JC fan boy group) is that the public is fed up with Tory lite and want a socialist party.

I mean, that is the appropriate narrative of the desires of the people who voted for party leader. The mismatch comes, I assume, because there's a considerable difference between 'people who voted in the party leadership election' and the full pool of 'people who are actually members of the Labour coalition'.
-Did some stuff and got tired of updating this thing

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

Offline GF

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2017, 09:10:03 AM »
The narrative of momentum (JC fan boy group) is that the public is fed up with Tory lite and want a socialist party.

I mean, that is the appropriate narrative of the desires of the people who voted for party leader. The mismatch comes, I assume, because there's a considerable difference between 'people who voted in the party leadership election' and the full pool of 'people who are actually members of the Labour coalition'.
There is a giant mismatch between people who joined the labour party in droves to vote corbyn, and labour voters.


 Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo

Offline Cromstar

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2017, 10:23:30 AM »
The narrative of momentum (JC fan boy group) is that the public is fed up with Tory lite and want a socialist party.

I mean, that is the appropriate narrative of the desires of the people who voted for party leader. The mismatch comes, I assume, because there's a considerable difference between 'people who voted in the party leadership election' and the full pool of 'people who are actually members of the Labour coalition'.
There is a giant mismatch between people who joined the labour party in droves to vote corbyn, and labour voters.

How dare people care about the election of leaders of a party that they are affiliated with. The overwhelming majority of labour voters don't/can't vote in leadership elections. The fact that people joined to vote for him is a pretty clear sign the people who care wanted Corbyn. If the millions of other Labour voters don't care, that's their problem. Corbyn's very obviously loved by the people who can vote, and they are the only ones who count. Labour shot itself in the foot LONG before Corbyn became leader. Try as they might, they can't just pin the whole problem on him.

Offline GF

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2017, 10:40:14 AM »
How dare people care about the election of leaders of a party that they are affiliated with. The overwhelming majority of labour voters don't/can't vote in leadership elections. The fact that people joined to vote for him is a pretty clear sign the people who care wanted Corbyn. If the millions of other Labour voters don't care, that's their problem. Corbyn's very obviously loved by the people who can vote, and they are the only ones who count. Labour shot itself in the foot LONG before Corbyn became leader. Try as they might, they can't just pin the whole problem on him.

This might be syrup level retarded, until towards the end, which is true, but the part before is a special level of dumb

Offline Cromstar

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2017, 10:42:45 AM »
How dare people care about the election of leaders of a party that they are affiliated with. The overwhelming majority of labour voters don't/can't vote in leadership elections. The fact that people joined to vote for him is a pretty clear sign the people who care wanted Corbyn. If the millions of other Labour voters don't care, that's their problem. Corbyn's very obviously loved by the people who can vote, and they are the only ones who count. Labour shot itself in the foot LONG before Corbyn became leader. Try as they might, they can't just pin the whole problem on him.

This might be syrup level retarded, until towards the end, which is true, but the part before is a special level of dumb

What, exactly, is dumb about it?

Offline Spite

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2017, 11:13:49 PM »
I've been a labour party member since I was sixteen. Most people like me didn't vote for Corbyn. They changed the rules so you could become a "supporter" for £3 just before the leadership election. Like 300k random commies and malcontents who actively despised the previous Labour leaders joined and voted for Corbyn. It was basically a takeover of the labour party by momentum. And yes, those trots are out of sync with both the general public and labour party supporters in general.

Offline Delyruin

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2017, 02:42:40 AM »
Can you vote at 16 in the UK?

I shudder to think.

Offline Malice please

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2017, 05:19:41 AM »
Can you vote at 16 in the UK?

I shudder to think.
Just cos SNP let them vote in that silly referendum, doesn't mean a real country will let them vote in a real election :p

Offline Cromstar

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2017, 05:46:05 AM »
I've been a labour party member since I was sixteen. Most people like me didn't vote for Corbyn. They changed the rules so you could become a "supporter" for £3 just before the leadership election. Like 300k random commies and malcontents who actively despised the previous Labour leaders joined and voted for Corbyn. It was basically a takeover of the labour party by momentum. And yes, those trots are out of sync with both the general public and labour party supporters in general.

The problem with this argument is that 'labour supporters' is a pool of several million people while 'officially on the party roles' is only a few hundred thousand. These are similar to what, in the US, might be called 'stealth partisans': people who are very much hardcore partisans, but don't directly identify as such. I don't buy that they aren't REAL labour voters just because they weren't on the official roles.

UK has fucking weird party set-up that encourages this behavior in the first place (otherwise party membership for the two largest parties in the UK would be more than half a million people). You are arguing that the millions of people who are, in fact, labour partisans who decided to officially join the party to influence are somehow less worthy of a vote than you. And that's fucking bullshit. I'm not accepting that argument, no matter how much you make it: its the same as people in the American Republican Party who claim that if you don't hold their religious beliefs, you shouldn't be in the party. Its snobbery and elitism and nothing more.

Offline Detective Jason

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2017, 06:28:40 AM »
Can you vote at 16 in the UK?

I shudder to think.
Calling it now: 16 years olds would be more responsible voters than 76 year olds.

Offline Spite

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2017, 11:48:53 AM »
I've been a labour party member since I was sixteen. Most people like me didn't vote for Corbyn. They changed the rules so you could become a "supporter" for £3 just before the leadership election. Like 300k random commies and malcontents who actively despised the previous Labour leaders joined and voted for Corbyn. It was basically a takeover of the labour party by momentum. And yes, those trots are out of sync with both the general public and labour party supporters in general.

The problem with this argument is that 'labour supporters' is a pool of several million people while 'officially on the party roles' is only a few hundred thousand. These are similar to what, in the US, might be called 'stealth partisans': people who are very much hardcore partisans, but don't directly identify as such. I don't buy that they aren't REAL labour voters just because they weren't on the official roles.

UK has fucking weird party set-up that encourages this behavior in the first place (otherwise party membership for the two largest parties in the UK would be more than half a million people). You are arguing that the millions of people who are, in fact, labour partisans who decided to officially join the party to influence are somehow less worthy of a vote than you. And that's fucking bullshit. I'm not accepting that argument, no matter how much you make it: its the same as people in the American Republican Party who claim that if you don't hold their religious beliefs, you shouldn't be in the party. Its snobbery and elitism and nothing more.

Essentially the people who joined were not people who supported labour in the past, but saw an opportunity to take over the party by getting Corbyn (who was a very marginal figure on the extreme fringe of the party) elected. There have been various socialist parties over the years, all of which have been extremely unpopular with the electorate. In 1983 the election manifesto for labour was as left wing as Corbyn's. It's nickname in UK politics is "the longest suicide note in history".

Essentially a bunch of SWP and CPGB and AWL members joined up and agitated others to do so, with the aim of influencing the election and hijacking the party. Momentum, which is practically a party in its own right, did the same thing. They recently agitated for their members to sign up as associate members of Unite (a trade union) with the aim of influencing their election too, the goal to ensure a pro-Corbyn leader winning.

It's not snobbery to oppose entryism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_(Trotskyist_group)

Ps. you might want to avoid sounding so vehement/certain about a topic you're clearly not that familiar with. Makes you sound silly.

Offline Cromstar

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2017, 12:03:42 PM »
The problem is that I've seen literally no evidence to support this theory. I've seen it thrown about a bit (as well as its meddling-Tories sibling), especially from anti-Corbyn people in Labour, but no proof that it actually happened.

Offline Spite

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Re: June 8th; the day skynet comes online
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2017, 03:04:55 PM »
The problem is that I've seen literally no evidence to support this theory. I've seen it thrown about a bit (as well as its meddling-Tories sibling), especially from anti-Corbyn people in Labour, but no proof that it actually happened.

Nobody is saying the tories did it.

What more evidence do you need, beyond the hundreds of thousands of people joining followed by a huge u-turn in all beliefs, policies and elected officials? I blame Miliband for lowering the standard for joining the party and making it one man one vote.